What’s the general consensus in the progressive world on lighting Shabbat candles late?
How can there be a general consensus? It’s Judaism… ^^
LOL! I should know better than to ask 😭😩
Sorry, I didn’t mean to be rude. In my Jewish Renewal congregation we light Shabbat candles after sunset so we can all do it together. And in general I think most Reform communities are fine with lighting it after sunset. If you are not able to do it at the Halachic time you can do it later.
Oh no I didn’t find you rude at all!! Thank you for the info, though. That’s what I assumed but I wanted to be sure 🙂
What Ive learned is that after sundown has passed (and your extta 18 min) you cannot light candles because it is already shabbat and acordding to halacha you cannot spark a flame on shabbat which is necessary to light candles.
^ This right here.
You will not find a midrash arguing that we should light candles after Shabbat has begun because lighting the candles is supposed to symbolize sanctifying the Sabbath and it would be contradictory to sanctify something that you’re breaking.
Exactly. I actually had a sitaution like this a couple of weeks ago where I wanted to light candles and forgot to do it at home and was at my Rabbi’s house. (The one who works on my college campus) and I was about to light the candles where they had them laid out for people to light when my told me what I wrote above. You cannot light candles after shabbat has started, thats the halacha.
When I was a kid, my family would light candles once it was already shabbat. But now, as an adult, I don’t (tbh I don’t actually light shabbat candles at all because I forgot and I don’t prioritize it, but I mean I wouldn’t light them on Shabbat even if I remembered and wanted to). It’s probably because I kept Shabbat for six and a half years, though (even though I don’t anymore).
And yeah, I’ve definitely been to Reform temples where they lit candles on Shabbat.
I grew up Reform and at my home, we lit candles at around sunset but weren’t too worried about being within the 18 minutes. When I was trying to do the BT/trad egal thing, I lit them just before sunset and had a calendar with the times.
Anyway, there is no general consensus that I’m aware of, and it depends by what is meant by “progressive Jewish community”. Do you mean Reform, Conservative, Renewal, chavurah, trad egal…? Because you’ll probably get twice as many answers as people if you ask people from those denominations/loose groupings. But in my experience it depends greatly on the degree of importance the person places on halacha qua halacha, and on traditional interpretation thereof. (Plus, whose tradition…)
I respect all the people who say that you can’t because of various halachic reasons- I suspect they’re right!- but as a person who’s largely not observant in traditional ways, I think that it’s worth asking yourself a few questions:
Does it make you feel closer to G-d, or to the Jewish community, or to the best part of yourself, to light candles or to be more strictly halachic?
Will not lighting the candles because you remembered half an hour late put a damper on the way you observe the rest of Shabbat?
Which parts of observing matter to you (whether or not they match what you think should be the ones that matter)?
I don’t think any of these questions have right or wrong answers. I just want to put in a vote for “this religion isn’t any one thing to all people, and debating pros and cons and then making hard but informed decisions is a pretty big part of who we are, so as long as you’re thinking about it, I think you’re doing Judaism right.”
I think my answers would be different depending on what the choice is. “It’s almost Shabbat, should we light candles now or wait till later?” and “It’s Shabbat already and we didn’t light candles, should we do it anyway?” and “It’s almost Shabbat, should we light candles now, or not bother at all?” are all different questions, and my answers to your questions will differ depending on which one I’m asking myself.
You’re asking the second question, but to get to it there were earlier questions – at some point there was a reason why I didn’t light the candles earlier, either because I forgot or I decided it wasn’t important or I was too depressed to care or I was busy or I was traveling, or or or…
Also the answers are really different depending on whether we’re talking about current-me or shomer-shabbat-me, and what my mental health situation is.
Sooo I’ll try but it’s not gonna be simple. 😛
Lighting candles before sunset, rather than after or not at all
Does lighting candles (before sunset) make me feel closer to God?
I… maybe? The concept of “closer to god” is so nebulous to me that it’s hard to answer this. I think probably? Yeah, I think so. I think it does help increase my kavanah, and there’s sort of a feeling of peace. Maybe less peaceful if it’s the last second and I’m rushing, but then there’s adrenaline and that’s fun (though it’s probably not closeness to God? I don’t, what is God?)
Does lighting candles (before sunset) make me feel closer to the Jewish community?
Am I at a Shabbaton lighting with others? Then yes, I think it does. Otherwise, it’s more of a sense of connection to the Jewish people as a whole than to any particular community.
Does lighting candles (before sunset) make me feel closer to the best part of myself?
Oh man, we’re going deep, I see. I… think this depends. Did I treat people like shit because they didn’t want to accommodate me being home in time for shabbos? Then no, definitely not. But that’s the case whether or not I end up lighting them later. Did it give me time to daven for my community/family/for the world? Then probably, yeah.
Will not lighting candles at all put a damper on the rest of Shabbat?
Not really? Lighting candles was never really a big thing for me.
Choosing not to light candles, once it’s already Shabbat
Does it make me feel closer to God not to light the candles?
I… don’t think so? But I don’t think it makes me feel farther either
Does it make me feel closer to the Jewish community not to light the candles?
If I’m in a shomer shabbat community and we all forgot to light, then yes. If I’m in a shomer shabbat community and everyone else already lit but I was busy and didn’t, then no, it would make me feel farther. But breaking the communal norm would make me feel far, too. Ok, so let’s imagine a situation where we’re in a pluralistic community and lit as a group before Shabbat, but I was busy taking a shower or something, and I can choose to light a candle where everyone else’s candles are if I want. Then yeah, it might make me feel farther from the community. But if the community values everyone making their own choices and I know it would validate my choice, maybe not. If I’m at home by myself, then no, it wouldn’t make me feel either closer or farther.
If I’m at a Reform temple and people are lighting candles after sunset, then yeah, feeling weird about it does make me feel farther from that particular community.
Does it make me feel closer to the best part of myself not to light the candles?
Neutral, I think? Maybe if I’m at a Reform temple where people are lighting candles together and I’m feeling weird about it, that could tempt me to be judgy? So, maybe not.
Will lighting candles after sunset put a damper on the rest of Shabbat?
If I’m shomer shabbat in this scenario, then yes, absolutely. If not… probably not? But it would still make me uncomfortable for no real gain and I wouldn’t be able to focus on it.
Which parts of observing matter to you (whether or not they match what you think should be the ones that matter)?
Still trying to figure that out, maybe always will be
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